The Manosphere: The men rights movement (mrm), mgtow and the seduction community (featuring NWP)

mraRecently I found out of the manosphere and the various men movements. I got really disappointed when studying them, since I seduced tons of women through out the years and I never met a so call “feminist”. When doing my research of the movements I became very angry and disappointed. The reason was I was reading the wrong guys and asking the wrong people. So I got the wrong conclusions I thought “a bunch of virgins paranoid about the feminist apocalypse coming”.

Then,I became super upset when “Aaron Sleazy” Joined the mrm. Since I recommend guys to get some of his books and read some of his articles (specially on warm approaches etc..) Anyways, I was kind of wrong, but at the same time right (you will see through out the post why). So thanks to NWP, I have a better understanding of the movements, and i hope with this post, the guys are curious about the movements understand what they are, the pros and cons, and the misunderstandings…

In All of the post i will make up the questions and my answers are copy and paste responses from NWP. The reason I chose NWP is because he is a lawyer and he is on the 3 scenes and knows about them the most, and is the best I have ever seen explaining it in simple terms:

Me: So what is the manosphere?

Nwp:The manosphere consists of three denominations – the PUA/Seduction Community, the Men’s Rights Movement/Activism Community, and the MGTOW (men going their own way) Community

Me: What is the philosophy of the mrm?

Nwp: The overall philosophy of the MRM is to establish equality between men and women by smashing the real matriarchy. Whereas, the goal of Feminism is to smash a fictitious patriarchy and replace it with a totalitarian matriarchy, with some denominations demanding the extermination of men as their final solution.

Me: Is it the goal of the mrm violence and hate towards women?

Nwp: No. These are just Feminists damseling in distress and living up to the worst stereotypes of weak and helpless womanhood, because that’s all these bitches know how to do. Weakness is strength. Strength is weakness. Disadvantage is advantage. 

Not a single actual MRA has ever been violent toward a woman. If one is ever found, he’ll be instantly booted out of the MRM due to him discrediting it.

The closest crazy person was Barbarrossa, who said that he swears if he is ever called to jury duty and the charge is rape, he will vote “not guilty” no matter what the evidence is, and that if any man sees a woman being raped, he should just continue walking as if nothing is happening.

That’s pretty hateful stuff, but technically, a “good Samaritan” law, forcing men to save the woman, would be unconstitutional. He’s on weaker legal ground in the jury comment. If he violates his jury oath, he could technically be charged with perjury. But again, he is the craziest of the crazy, which is nothing compared to what the Feminists falsely accuse MRAs of. 

Paul Elam said on AVFM that a Feminist whom he was paired with during a portion of the interview (the obese Sex-Negative Feminist Jacqeline Friedman) accused him on camera of being indirectly responsible for women getting raped and the FBI telling women to leave their houses due to being unsafe. He laughed and realized this bitch has no credibility and said to her, “Well I wish you luck in your endeavors. You’ll need it.” To which she responded, “I can’t believe you just made a threat on camera.”

I REALLY hope they show that part whenever they air the fucking thing!

These are the same psychotics who wrote the article you read.

Edit: Paul Elam’s semi-graphic description of the interview, including when Friedman goes apeshit, can be found here:…from-new-york/

This is why, in the more recent article, when they asked Elam to show them his home, so that he can look “more human,” one commenter joked if they’re also going to be showing Friedman’s home to prove to the viewing audience that she doesn’t live in an insane asylum.

Me: Is there a movie that illustrate the Mra Movement?

Nwp: Have you seen the movie Liar, Liar with Jim Carrey? It might as well have been written by a Men’s Rights Activist. It illustrates beautifully what decent fathers go through and what vindictive bitches golddiggers can be. That movie should be a must watch for MRA beginners.

Liar, Liar is the only MRA movie ever made.

Me: What is MGTOW (Men going their own way)?

Nwp: The very philosophy of MGTOW (men going their own way) is to completely divorce men from western civilization and let our gynocentric society collapse without the slave labor that men provide to keep it going, and then laugh sadistically as the Feminists come begging for men to come back as soon as the first red light appears on the dashboard of a Feminist’s car.

Me: What is the major difference between mra and mgtow?

Nwp: MRAs believe in working within the system in order to smash the matriarchy and create a civilization in which men and women can finally be equal. But, in order to do this, they obviously have to get involved politically, create lobbying groups and other interest groups that would petition the government, and become the public shapers of our culture, just like Feminists have become.

MGTOWs, on the other hand, believe in passive resistance only. They want to completely exit from this society, not physically, but culturally, socially, and politically, and simply live off the grid on their terms. They believe that if enough men do this, females will lose all of their slaves. When that happens and advertising ceases to be effective and so forth, society will be brought to its knees. Then, after a brief period of sadistic nirvana as MGTOWs allow civilization to burn and leave all the women without male-maintained technology, the MGTOWs plan on returning. When this happens, they expect women to be on their knees saying “Yes, master” to everything men will say and do from thence forward.

Think of MGTOWs as the John Galts of the manosphere who simply shrug and completely check out until society appreciates them again. Whereas the MRAs are like the Libertarians of the manosphere who believe in fighting the matriarchy actively and from within in order to make this a better world for men and boys without giving up on it, unlike the MGTOWs.

MGTOWs have made fun of the MRAs, saying that MGTOWs can say anything they want because they are not trying to be politically popular, whereas the MRAs must censor themselves so as not to appear sexist or misogynistic.

Barbarrossa calls himself a MGTOW (and he has his own youtube channel). He’s the leader of the “passive resistance movement.” Examples of passive resistance, according to him, include, but are not limited to, walking away and whistling while a woman is being raped in front of you, voting not guilty if called to jury duty when a guy is charged with rape, slowly starving the Feminist beast by forsaking all relationships with women, and learning what women find attractive so that men can do the exact opposite until the sexual frustration alone on the part of women may cause females to break down and submit!

Some MGTOWs demand absolute celibacy for men. Having sex with women, or even kissing a woman on the lips, is a betrayal of all men everywhere, according to them. Their motto is – a man needs a woman like a fish needs a bicycle. Some of them who are physically attractive enjoy teasing women and frustrating them. Barbarossa once said that if a woman asks in frustration “are you gay?” only then can you call yourself a proud MGTOW.

But not all MGTOWs are into celibacy. Some of them enjoy casual sex with women, but purely on their terms without making the slightest concessions to women.

The Japanese grass eaters are an example of the celibate MGTOWs. It’s thanks to them that whore houses in Japan are going bankrupt and are being replaced with sex doll factories. Japanese women are so goddamn frustrated that it is so easy to get laid there as a foreigner. 

Celibate MGTOWs usually are okay with living with their parents forever, having a part time janitorial job just to pay for food, and spending the rest of the time playing video games, masturbating, having sex with inflatable dolls and not being bothered. 

I once read an article about a Japanese MGTOW (which was quoted by Elam in one of his videos), who went on a date with a woman because she insisted. But because she was an arrogant bitch, after she invited him to her place to spend the night, he got so bored of her that he just fell asleep on her couch, ha ha! The next day she said, “He could have had me.” And that was the problem right there – she was talking as if she’s doing him a favor like a generous asexual instead of saying “I could have had him.”

But again, not all MGTOWs are celibate. Some have casual sex only, and some MGTOWs even consider themselves MRAs, but most don’t.

Edit: Check out John Galt’s speech, and just pretend he is a MGTOW talking about women and sex:

Me: What are the differences and conflicts among the MRA, MGTOW, and The seduction community?

Nwp: MGTOWs hate, hate, HATE PUAs with a passionate burning fire, whereas the MRAs simply dislike us and think we are immature little boys.

The MGTOWs look at us and say, “What a group of sell outs and traitors!” Think of them as the Radical Feminists of the manosphere – hey, every movement needs to have them, mostly to know where the crazy lines are.

They believe that if enough men get laid, there won’t be as many frustrated male soldiers that are needed in the fight. They hate PUAs even more than Feminists in many ways and consider the alpha male as the lowest of the low on a scale measuring male respectability. They believe that men chose to become beta when they realized women aren’t that smart or interesting, thus turning their lives to other pursuits, hence our modern technological civilization. It is the alpha seducers, according to MGTOWs, who are the parasites living off of the slave labor of betas and, just like women, must be fought against. As Barbarossa said about learning female psychology to get laid –

“The juice is not worth the squeeze. They (PUAs) are just a bunch of addicts bragging about their addiction. It’s like a heroine addict making fun of the social drinker, or the occasional weed smoker, for refusing to dedicate his whole life to pursuing more drugs.” I think his favorite name for alpha seducers is “impulse-driven monkeys,” or “biological itch scratchers.”

Of course, almost their entire philosophy is flawed, as I will explain when I respond to Hellohihello’s question in a moment. Betas didn’t invent civilization because they found women boring by comparison. It’s the exact opposite in fact. Every invention ever invented was designed, consciously or subconsciously, by some beta in order to impress women due to his lack of game/seduction skills.

But that’s another discussion. So I wouldn’t recommend you try and talk to MGTOWs. They’ll railroad your ass and call you a traitor to manhood.

First of all, MRAs and MGTOWs are confused about the premise of seduction. They don’t understand the self-contradictory nature of female psychology and mistakenly believe that women’s thoughts are straightforward. 

For example, when MRAs see women enslave men who put them on a pedestal, they assume that putting women on a pedestal makes women happy. Therefore, they assume that men who get laid are men who chivalrously put women on pedestals and enslave themselves to them. Women give out sex in exchange for slavery. Thus, every sexually active PUA is a mangina or white knight who is betraying the brotherhood.

Here is the problem with that:

Women have two contradictory urges inside them when it comes to men. The first urge is to have sex with men (alphas). The second urge is to enslave men (betas) by gaining access to men’s resources and parasitically living off of men’s labors. In exchange for such slavery, the women will reluctantly give these unattractive men sex if it means he’ll continue being a slave.

One female instinct can only be fulfilled at the expense of the other. This results in women biting the hand that feeds them. So when a woman financially enslaves a beta, and gives him sex to keep him in line, the MRAs see that chivalrous beta as a smart PUA who has learned game – a pathetic and sad excuse for a man.

What the MRAs can’t see is that this beta is the exact opposite of a successful PUA. This woman doesn’t love him and is not made happy by him. She hates him and is made miserable by him. He blows up the woman’s ego with his slavery – which was her motivation to enslave him – but her being proud of her feminine powers came at the expense of her attraction to him. Women shit test men by trying to enslave them and are hoping that the men will resist. When the men don’t resist, because they falsely think that women want what they say they want, the woman will keep the man as a slave, while holding him in the deepest contempt for allowing her to do this to him. 

But women can’t come out and say they hate it, because then men will refuse to enslave themselves. But if men refuse to enslave themselves, there will be no way for women to know who the real alphas are, vs. the pretenders who are refusing to enslave themselves just to get laid. So women pretend that they want slavery from men in exchange for sex and send all the betas on a wild goose chase, both in order to see who the real attractive alphas are (the ones who can read their mind), as well as in order to fulfill their other feminine urge to give her, and her children, financial and physical security.

The problem with MRAs is that they, like most men, take women’s words at face value. Women say you must pedestal them to get laid. So when they see PUAs getting laid, it must be because they’ve pedestaled them. When a woman says an alpha male makes her happy, MRAs believe that he made her happy in the way that women say men make them happy – by supplicating to her and providing for her.

In other words, MRAs don’t know the game. The real way to make a woman happy is precisely to take her off the pedestal, refuse to provide for her, not let her mother you, and fight (and win) against all of her female worship shit tests, despite her claiming to want the opposite. Once you show her that you haven’t bought into her bullshit, her urge to betaize and enslave you for the purposes of obtaining security for her and her offspring will be frustrated, but this frustration will make happy the contradictory side of her biological imperative – her sex drive for the alpha male who can’t be tamed. 

By making a woman happy in one way, you are making her sad in another way. Thus, you can make her happy by getting her to hate you (beta provider/slave), or make her happy by getting her to love you and be super horny for you (alpha male, lover, seducer). Although this will frustrate her instinct to dominate you, this frustration of the female’s domination instinct leads to super horniness on her part. 

PUAs, therefore, make women happy in the long-term by frustrating their need for instant gratification via female worship and chivalrous pedestaling. Once the MRAs see this dichotomy in female psychology, they will understand that there is nothing wrong with making women happy, because making her truly happy involves the opposite of pedestaling, financially providing, and supplicating, despite women saying they are made happy precisely by being pedestaled. It’s a shit test.

Maybe we do pedestal women in the sense of learning what makes them tick so we can get laid, but in doing so, we raise them up to the pedestal that we ourselves are currently standing on, which leads the women to pedestal us in return, while they continue to enslave the betas that pedestal them via supplication, and hate them for allowing women to do this as the women keep doing it in their never-ending testing of the male’s psychological strength.

So if the MRAs want to say we are pedestaling women, it may be true in a certain philosophical sense, but they erroneously conflate this with beta pedestaling, which invites female contempt for men. Alpha “pedestaling” will result in a woman’s enthusiastic submission, love for the man, and the pedestaling of him, because he put her on the same pedestal that he is standing on.

This seems indistinguishable from beta servitude to the uninitiated, but there is a world of difference. As Bruce Lee said:

“When I was a student, I thought a punch was just a punch. When I was a teacher, I realized that a punch really isn’t just a punch. But when I became a master, I learned that a punch really is just a punch.”

MRAs are on Level 2 and view the Level 3 PUAs as indistinguishable from Level I betas.

MRAs don’t want make women happy because they want to be freed from slavery, since they believe that making women happy leads women to hate you. But if they would only learn that making women happy in a completely different way can get women to love you and make you happy in return, they would realize that there is a superior alternative to being free and lonely (Level 2), and that is to be free and happy (Level 3), and not just superficially happy but enslaved (Level 1).

They can’t see the difference between 1 and 3. Both MGTOWs and MRAs are missing a piece of the puzzle. First comes matriarchy (betas), then mutual independence equality (MRAs and MGTOWs), and finally mutual dependence equality (PUAs) – Parasitism – loneliness – symbiosis. Symbiosis is not parasitism. Only the lonely ones think it is.

They assume women are linear thinkers like men, which would turn all PUAs into manginas if that were true. That’s why they think we’re manginas. 

MRA: I did everything for that bitch and she took me to court and bankrupted me.
PUA: That’s why she bankrupted you.

Woman talking about a PUA: He fulfills all my sexual needs and makes me so happy.
MRA: That means you will bankrupt him because women hate when men supplicate like that.
PUA to MRA: You totally conflated two concepts that don’t belong together, even though women use the same words to describe both. 

the more comfortable a woman is with you, the more willing she’ll eventually be to take responsibility for the sex. MRAs see the surface level only and try to de-spoil women like blunt instruments. PUAs are more refined and not literal in their actions, just like women. So the MRAs can’t figure us out, because, to them, we’re supplicating and doing everything backwards if they interpret our actions at face value. They don’t understand womanese, which means they don’t understand the seducer of women.


Categories: Seduction Insights


  • Nick T says:

    Until I read this, I hadn’t been clear on the differences since I believe we are all on the same team (and I’ve tried to find a good explanation). NWP is erudite as always. Thanks for putting in the time to make all this understandable.

    • Skills says:

      no problem, yes nwp is a smart dude, but unfortunately a lot of people don’t like him much… I think he is a cool cat! He is just misunderstood..

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    Outstanding choice of colors!

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